XNA is being killed off

[seagoon]

....or it will just end up like the rest of the crap we’ve seen over the last 10+ years .....

Dear me, we have short memories and little sentimentality.
"10+ years" places us right into the beginning period of MSTS, when everyone raved over this new train sim which graphically beat the pants off TM4 and operationally peed all over what we had been using up to 2000.

Yet more than a decade later that sim is still selling, is still generating interest from those with a creative bent and is still the benchmark when it comes to other train-sim developments.
The benchmark?!
Yes, because we still compare what has come since with MSTS.

Why are some so quick to deride MSTS?
You may as well dump crap on VGA graphics, Rendition cards and Creative Labs' Soundblaster.

Bruce

[conrail1]

Dear me, we have short memories and little sentimentality.
"10+ years" places us right into the beginning period of MSTS, when everyone raved over this new train sim which graphically beat the pants off TM4 and operationally peed all over what we had been using up to 2000.

Yeah and after 10-12 years there still is’nt a train operation simulator available to the consumer that combines the performance and graphics of an up to date game engine with anything that resembles realistic train handling physics.

Yet more than a decade later that sim is still selling, is still generating interest from those with a creative bent and is still the benchmark when it comes to other train-sim developments.

Still selling, who’s buying? Do you have any numbers on how many copies of MSTS are still being sold?

[rdamurphy]

conrail1, you must be an engineer. You might want to look up "hyperbole." I tend to use it a lot. Don't take things quite so literally, but look for the underlying idea...

The question is whether or not there's a demand for an up to date physics and graphics train simulator game. While we may think so, even the flight simulator genre has always been challenged for sales in comparison to World of Warcrack and Club Penguin.

When's the last time you saw a helicopter sim?

Why is it the only Space Sim out there is Orbiter? Or Star Trek/Star Wars shoot-em-ups with spacecraft that bank in airless space and make sounds as they go by?

"Gamers" today want to kill large quantities of 'n00bs' and blow things up. And don't want to spend a lot of time figuring out how to do it.

The prevailing opinion of the gaming community is the future is in consoles. Not PC's.

Robert

[conrail1]

The question is whether or not there's a demand for an up to date physics and graphics train simulator game. While we may think so, even the flight simulator genre has always been challenged for sales in comparison to World of Warcrack and Club Penguin.

I agree there isn’t (well at least not in the form that we’ve seen them in up until now) that’s why OR is being created by volunteers and not some mega million dollar game developer studio.

This doesn’t mean that OR couldn’t be developed on an OpenGL rendering engine running on a low over head version of Linux (which is also free).

When's the last time you saw a helicopter sim?

Actually just recently I was thinking of taking a closer look at this -

http://takeonthegame.com/media/screenshots/

http://takeonthegame.com/hinds/

The prevailing opinion of the gaming community is the future is in consoles. Not PC's.

I’ve already got a few console racing games that are a hair away from being considered a true sim with excellent graphics and consistent 60 fps performance running at 1080p. It’s amazing what can be accomplished when the software is optimized to run on a specific hardware spec without the overhead of the Windows OS, all this on 6-7 year old, $200.00 hardware.

With many already abandoning the PC as a gaming platform and seeing what the next gen console’s (XBOX 720/PS4) are going to have for hardware it’s not hard to imagine say a BVE type train operation simulation running on a console.

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/14...4-and-xbox-720

[rdamurphy]

Well, look at how many people we have come here with a PC they assembled or paid a lot of money for and the performance is dismal, for whatever reason. Yet every X-Box and PS3 in the world performs exactly the same. When you pay $$$ for a 2013 Windows 8 computer with the latest hardware, and it can't run a game released in June of 2001 with specs that indicate it should run on a cell phone, it's easy to get a tad discouraged.

Robert

[seagoon]

With many already abandoning the PC as a gaming platform and seeing what the next gen console’s (XBOX 720/PS4) are going to have for hardware it’s not hard to imagine say a BVE type train operation simulation running on a console.]

That wouldn't deter nor disappoint me in the slightest.
If I could sit down in front of my mega-wide-screen HD TV screen and immerse myself in the future equivalent of "a BVE type train operation" I would be delighted.

....and after 10-12 years there still is’nt a train operation simulator available to the consumer that combines the performance and graphics of an up to date game engine with anything that resembles realistic train handling physics.

So what?
We are in the minority and no developer who is in the business to make money* is going to expend resources in 2013 to create "realistic train handling physics" for a tiny, tiny segment of the software-buying multitude.
EDIT *Run 8 Studios aside, of course.

Get used to it and accept it.

Bruce

[seagoon]

...Still selling, who’s buying? Do you have any numbers on how many copies of MSTS are still being sold?

Nope.
But if it is being advertised on-line, is being sold OTC at my local games store and there are "newbie" questions about it in trainsim.com forums then I think it's reasonable to deduce that it is still selling.

Bruce

[rdamurphy]

I'm not sure many people would want realistic physics. "Oh, boy. I get to sit here for 20 minutes drooling on my keyboard while my train line pumps up to 90psi so I can release the brakes."

And nobody, and I mean NOBODY has even discussed retainers, brake fade from overheating, traction motor failures, turbo failures, dynamic brake failure, knuckle failure and drawbar pulls, and if unit shutdown from "deferred" maintenance.

Or putting equipment "on the ground", signal failures, grade crossing collissions, and waiting for your conductor to do his FRA required "walkaround" before pulling out of the yard.

Sounds fun, doesn't it?

Robert

[conrail1]

So what?
We are in the minority and no developer who is in the business to make money* is going to expend resources in 2013 to create "realistic train handling physics" for a tiny, tiny segment of the software-buying multitude.
EDIT *Run 8 Studios aside, of course.

Then what are you doing in here then? Just go back to the Pong graphics and piss poor performance that you’ve already been used to with MSTS for the last 10 years. Last I checked the volunteers working on OR weren’t doing it for the money and it’s not a business.

Get used to it and accept it.

I don’t have to accept anything it’s just a hobby; I’ve been able to get my fill of the real thing at work since the early 1990’s, lol.

[conrail1]

When you pay $$$ for a 2013 Windows 8 computer with the latest hardware, and it can't run a game released in June of 2001 with specs that indicate it should run on a cell phone, it's easy to get a tad discouraged.

Robert

You don’t get discouraged, you just move on to something else which is what most have already done. I don’t know anyone who would build a $$$, 2013 Windows 8 computer with the latest hardware just to run something that looked like MSTS to begin with.

[conrail1]

I'm not sure many people would want realistic physics. "Oh, boy. I get to sit here for 20 minutes drooling on my keyboard while my train line pumps up to 90psi so I can release the brakes."

And nobody, and I mean NOBODY has even discussed retainers, brake fade from overheating, traction motor failures, turbo failures, dynamic brake failure, knuckle failure and drawbar pulls, and if unit shutdown from "deferred" maintenance.

Or putting equipment "on the ground", signal failures, grade crossing collissions, and waiting for your conductor to do his FRA required "walkaround" before pulling out of the yard.

Sounds fun, doesn't it?

Robert

Well there’s already plenty of wana-be-railroaders right here at this site who drool on their keyboards looking at choo-choo trains in MSTS without the realistic physics so you tell me, lol.

I’ve been on professional railroad training simulators and yes realistic physics in a train operation simulator are very immersive.

[conrail1]

Nope.
But if it is being advertised on-line, is being sold OTC at my local games store and there are "newbie" questions about it in trainsim.com forums then I think it's reasonable to deduce that it is still selling.

Bruce

Yeah I bet it’s a real block buster.

[rdamurphy]

Well there’s already plenty of wana-be-railroaders right here at this site who drool on their keyboards looking at choo-choo trains in MSTS without the realistic physics so you tell me, lol.

I’ve been on professional railroad training simulators and yes realistic physics in a train operation simulator are very immersive.

That's kind of why I've always thought Trainz had it right, model railroad controls, or realistic physics, depending on your preferences. I see nothing wrong with wanting to just watch trains and take screenshots, I do it occassionally myself.

Robert

[conrail1]

That's kind of why I've always thought Trainz had it right, model railroad controls, or realistic physics, depending on your preferences. I see nothing wrong with wanting to just watch trains and take screenshots, I do it occassionally myself.

Robert

That’s Trainz, OpenRails according to the original documentation was being developed for the serious train operation simulation enthusiast who desires realistic physics along with a game platform that is flexible enough to take advantage of current and evolving PC technologies.

[rdamurphy]

I think there's a certain sausage effect to OR. (If you like sausage, never watch it being made...) Very few people are exposed to the process of writing software, especially to the level OR is doing it. Before anything can be improved, it needs to at least work as well as MSTS. As it evolves, it will only get better, and the fact that the community gets to provide input and suggestions that are actually taken seriously means it could indeed be a great sim when it's done. On the level of PI? I don't know, possibly.

It's not just a game, it's a labor of love for those writing it. I really wish more people would appreciate the effort going into it. I printed out the Signal module (It's open source, anyone can download it) and it's 164 pages. Just one module.

I'm afraid to print the main Train handling module.

Robert