Default rolling stock

[conductorchris]

An idea popped into my head this evening . . .

Default rolling stock - in msts - has always made me cringe. BUT activity designers seem to have a penitent for using it because everybody's got it. Personally I'd rather activity designers paid attention to what rolling stock is actually accurate for the route and the train . . . but that does not seem to be the choice others make.

I wonder if designers of rolling stock might be approached to create a small package of default rolling stock for Open Rails that has almost universal appeal that can be packaged with the game as a starting point for activities.

Thinking a little about what kind of rolling stock this might be:

50' Boxcar, Railbox
48' Tankcar, UTLX
48' Tankcar, GATX
54' PS2 high-hip covered hopper, PTLX
3 bay center flow hopper grain, ACFX
50' Gondola, Railgon
89' Piggyback flat with trailers, trailer train
two different well sets
TTX auto racks
TTX center beam lumber cars

I'm also thinking about a steam era version:
- 40' steel boxcar, Pennsylvania RR
- 40' steel boxcar, New York Central RR
- 40' steel boxcar, ATSF
- 40' boxcar, UP
- 40' USRA boxcar, SP
- 36' tankcar, UTLX and GATX
- 50 Gondola, Pennsylvania
- Two Bay Hopper Car, Pennsylvania
- 50' Flatcar, P&LE
- Railway Express Reefer
- Pullman Sleeper

What do people think about the idea?

Christopher

[mipman25]

I think that a few more passenger cars would do. Besides that, I love the idea.

[cbff33]

There are upgrades available that greatly improve the default US locos and rolling stock!

[conductorchris]

Dustin's right - distributing a set or two of Amtrak equipment probably has near universal appeal (so long as it does to the equipment designers).

And yes, there are upgrades that improve the US default rolling stock. And I've got them too. But a BNSF GP38 leading a BN and ATSF boxcar and a BNSF covered hopper on a Lehigh Valley train doesn't cut it for me. The solution, of course, is to swap out the default rolling stock for rolling stock you've already got. But somehow I don't get around to that . . .

Anyway, Open Rails can't distribute the msts/Kuju default stock, though some of the designers of the upgraded stock might consent to have theirs distributed - which would be another step in becoming free of msts because it would make activities with default stock continue to work (although they still would because the default replacements can be downloaded).

Christopher

[seagoon]

.......Default rolling stock - in msts - has always made me cringe. BUT activity designers seem to have a penitent for using it because everybody's got it. Personally I'd rather activity designers paid attention to what rolling stock is actually accurate for the route and the train . . .

Responding as one who has created a few Activities for MSTS, I'd rather provide (and receive) an Activity that doesn't require anyone to download any third-party material (freeware or payware) in order to run it.

There is enough route-accurate rolling stock out there for any individual rivet-counter to go berserk when making up consists and you don't attract newcomers by providing Activities which require megabytes of downloads and, in many cases, the purchase of additional payware!

Nothing is more off-putting than seeing an appetising Activity in the library and then reading that it requires a whole raft of downloads.

I wonder if designers of rolling stock might be approached to create a small package of default rolling stock for Open Rails that has almost universal appeal that can be packaged with the game as a starting point for activities.

Well, you've just said that default rolling stock makes you cringe!
Isn't this EXACTLY what is provided with MSTS - "a starting point for activities"?!!!

You've got me scratching my head!

BK

[apco25]

True, but the default stock like the default routes its really showing its age. As open rails progresses we should be working on moving away from dependency on really old legacy MSTS content when and where we can. Eric Cantu's default replacements are at a minimum a good idea. Renaming other modern rolling stock like SLI's railcars or other high quality freeware also helps if you go with more generic road names such as leasing company reporting marks. I removed all of the old default content from the euro and asian routes long ago out of my primary transet folder and stored them away. The cars that Cantu's didn't replace got swapped out with other models matching the original naming convention so any consists using them was changed globally. GP38 and Dash 9 got replaced long ago too. I haven't looked back or missed those old crummy looking models.

The activities I wrote and distributed didn't use one default item. Doing so took extra time to set up the activities, but well worth it in the end.

[PORU333]

They could always skip this and download my "Modern Day D&H" package here in the library, the rolling stock is perfect for anywhere in North America.

[seagoon]

True, but .....

I love statements that begin "True, but.......".
It's an immediate indication that the author really does not agree with the points put forward and will find some reason not to accept them.

The activities I wrote and distributed didn't use one default item. Doing so took extra time to set up the activities, but well worth it in the end.

Well worth it for whom.........the downloader or the author?

I reiterate that using default stock - as provided with the itital product - provides a common baseline for everyone. The emphasis is on everyone.

It's all very well for Activity creators to wander off on ego trips by being able to claim that the 'stock used in their masterpiece is dead accurate and 100% authentic to the line, era and whatever else they wish to throw in.
However, this does not lend itself to making it convenient for individuals to make their own choice regarding whether to run with the default 'stock or download (and possibly have to purchase) megabytes of authentic eye-candy.

BK

[conductorchris]

BK: You are making the argument for my initial proposition. That default stock provides a common baseline for everyone.

Only it doesn't for Open Rails, because no rolling stock is distributed with it. What I was wondering was if it would be a good idea to do so. Sounds like you agree.

The two reasons that default stock makes me cringe do not mean that the concept is a bad idea, just that what we've got in msts is of revoltingly poor quality unless replaced with something (such as Eric Cantu's replacements) and that it's often wildly inaccurate to use it (Since it's basically all BNSF, at least for freight equipment). But it seems like a set of good quality rolling stock with some universal appeal could be created. Perhaps even using the msts file names so as to be able to have backward comparability for old activities. I think a few leassor locomotives that could be used anywhere, some near universal cars, like UTLX tank cars, TTX intermodal, Railbox boxcars should be part of the pool, possibly added on to what is already in the default "fleet" or perhaps replacing the BNSF versions.

Christopher

[OTTODAD]

Hi Chris !

I think what ORTS needs is rolling stock created with a suitable for it 3D graphics program and use their modified by some MSTS experts better physics.

O t t o

[conductorchris]

Yes, Otto. And then the set of default rolling stock could be a showpiece instead of a groaner to be replaced.

[OTTODAD]

Yes, Otto. And then the set of default rolling stock could be a showpiece instead of a groaner to be replaced.

Volunteers, one step forward please !

O t t o

[seagoon]

BK: You are making the argument for my initial proposition. That default stock provides a common baseline for everyone.

Only it doesn't for Open Rails, because no rolling stock is distributed with it. What I was wondering was if it would be a good idea to do so. Sounds like you agree.....

If OR was not reliant on MSTS as its "core", sure, I agree 100%.
Are you sure that OR will, within the foreseeable future, divorce itself of MSTS?
If so then OR will obviously need a set of 'stock.

BK

[OTTODAD]

If OR was not reliant on MSTS as its "core", sure, I agree 100%.

At the moment all that ORTS uses from MSTS is what is in these folders, the Tsection.dat only in the root of the GLOBAL folder.

O t t o

[apco25]

I will agree it is a common baseline that is extremely OLD, out dated and no where close to the quality of current FREEWARE or payware modeling. Eric's replacements are free. Otto's replacements are free. Where do you get ego from? Just because I made an effort to include more appropriate rail cars in an activity?

[QUOTE=seagoon;1752700]I love statements that begin "True, but.......".
It's an immediate indication that the author really does not agree with the points put forward and will find some reason not to accept them.

All I can take from that statement is the reverse, that being you don't want to be dissagreed with.

I keep noticing the community seems to have a strong desire to cling on to old ways of doing things despite software like OR moving beyond anything MSTS could do. Why? The core of the sim is old, and while it has lasted an extremely long time we really need to start thinking outside of the original KUJU box. How many more years to do we think the original game is going to still be distributed? Eventually you won't be able to find MSTS. Then what will default rolling stock do for us? Embrace OR and stop thinking in a 2001 mindset!

I love statements that begin "True, but.......".
It's an immediate indication that the author really does not agree with the points put forward and will find some reason not to accept them.


Well worth it for whom.........the downloader or the author?

I reiterate that using default stock - as provided with the itital product - provides a common baseline for everyone. The emphasis is on everyone.

It's all very well for Activity creators to wander off on ego trips by being able to claim that the 'stock used in their masterpiece is dead accurate and 100% authentic to the line, era and whatever else they wish to throw in.
However, this does not lend itself to making it convenient for individuals to make their own choice regarding whether to run with the default 'stock or download (and possibly have to purchase) megabytes of authentic eye-candy.

BK