Calling all route builders as well as MSTS and OR users

[westerngy]

I bet every route out there has some of MS stock in it,either in the form of track ,roads or buildings.Wonder why the panic or is it just curious ideas by OR.

[eric]

Why are route builders now not using either Marc's scale rail system or DB tracks instead of burdening their route with clunky old too wide rails?This would be an advance for either OR or MSTS.Is it more difficult to use either of these systems in the first place?

Dynamic track is the main reason for me on my older routes. I've been unable to find a copy of Dynatracks for a while, and last I checked, even if I had Dynatracks, there's not a public profile available for Scalerail.

Am I incorrect in that assumption?

[ckawahara]

Marc has made the profile public...drop him an email.

[eric]

Marc has made the profile public...drop him an email.

OK, good to know.... Where can one get Dynatrax?

[OTTODAD]

OK, good to know.... Where can one get Dynatrax?

Here is the latest working version I have used to convert all my DB-TRACKS-ROUTES Dynamic tracks with, it's latest Beta having a few problems, no longer supported by Tim, a friend told me a couple of days ago:
https://www.otto-wipfel.co.uk/msts-d...trax_v0.62.zip

O t t o

[OTTODAD]

I can not help getting the feeling that the ORTS team find it difficult, if not impossible, to code ORTS so that it can use all of what MSTS uses and one way out of that situation is to try a different approach.

Like with all software trying to be backward compatible it would be much better to start from the basement up and create something new to use the latest of whatever, using the best examples of what other software is capable of, Microsoft should have done a long time ago instead of dragging their ancient OS into 2012, adding bells and whistles here and there.

The same applies to the Internet.

O t t o

[seagoon]

......The same applies to the Internet.....

Huh?
Are you suggesting that the internet as we know it now be scrapped and started from scratch?

With regard to starting OR from scratch, you have been around long enough to know that such a project undertaken by a group of volunteers, no matter how dedicated, would take a lifetime to reach fruition.
Far, far more logical to start with an existing base and build on it and we can see evidence enough at this point just with the graphics to appreciate that fact.

I look at OR as a significant mod to an existing program, not as a brand-new program in its own right and as an owner of MSTS it doesn't matter to me whether it becomes a free-standing product or continues to require MSTS as it's foundation.

To me it is becoming the MSTS 2 that we were expecting a couple of years ago.

BK

[lindsayts]

I bet every route out there has some of MS stock in it,either in the form of track ,roads or buildings.Wonder why the panic or is it just curious ideas by OR.

Hope you did not bet to much money ;-) , while this route is short it was I believe specificly built to demonstrate one could build a route without using anything from MSTS.

http://www.manning-river.coalstonewcastle.com.au/route/route-install/

Second point is the OR developers are just trying to set up a stand alone train sim and very likely to try and motivate MSTS route and object builders to contribute to this cause.

Lindsay

[crstagg]

I can not help getting the feeling that the ORTS team find it difficult, if not impossible, to code ORTS so that it can use all of what MSTS uses and one way out of that situation is to try a different approach.

O t t o

Read the OP Otto

Hello,

The members of the Open Rails team have had ongoing discussions about how to make Open Rails an independent simulator free from the requirement of having MSTS installed. Achieving this objective has become more paramount as copies of MSTS are becoming increasingly scarce, as you may know. Bearing in mind the important objective of gaining self-independence for Open Rails, the Open Rails team is currently compiling a list of routes originally created for MSTS that do not have any default content that came with the software. One of the main reasons why we are compiling this list is to help Open Rails users, who do not have access to MSTS, to run be able to run Open Rails without MSTS.

The problem is those of us who have been running MSTS want a better SIM, but one that utilizes the add-ons we have bought and accumulated. BUT those just discovering Train Sims cannot or will not be able to find copies of MSTS. It is naive to think that Micro$oft or Kuju will allow a public release of all the shapes, textures and sounds that come on the MSTS CDs so the routes and Add-ons that do not utilize those shapes, textures and sounds need to be identified or MSTS/ORTS will continue to loose users as the ability to obtain MSTS CDs becomes harder and harder. ORTS runs fine when it runs Routes and Rolling Stock that DO NOT use files from these folders: .../Train Simulator/Global and .../Train Simulator/Sound. I have setup an "ORTS Mini" install with no MSTS pre installed. That means that I just setup the folder structure empty .../Train Simulator/Global and .../Train Simulator/Sound folders and Empty Trainset folders then I installed 3dTrains Feather River Route. It ran fine with just a few sound errors (calls from Feather River rolling stock to sounds installed with the MSTS default which had not been switched to 3dTrains replacement sounds). Marc is now aware of these errors and I expect an update will be issued in the future. I want to point out that after installing Feather River the .../Train Simulator/Global and .../Train Simulator/Sound folders were no longer empty as the Feather River installer placed files in these folders. And of course the Trainset folders were not empty as the route includes rolling stock and consists for the activities that come with it.

[OTTODAD]

Huh? Are you suggesting that the internet as we know it now be scrapped and started from scratch?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet2

http://articles.cnn.com/2003-03-11/tech/internet2_1_internet-pindar-wong-browser?_s=PM:TECH

[OTTODAD]

Read the OP Otto. You mean this:

The members of the Open Rails team have had ongoing discussions about how to make Open Rails an independent simulator free from the requirement of having MSTS installed.

Without MSTS installed and the ORTS team having to create source code to replace all that MSTS does with it's files, which are being used by most everything that has been released for MSTS to date, they need new files ORTS can use, not being able to create code to read the MSTS files and make them work in ORTS exactly the same way as they do in MSTS.

If you have an idea how they can do that without having to create suitable for ORTS files from scratch then I am sure that they will appreciate you telling them how to do it.

My DB-TRACKS-ROUTES Mini is the best that can be done but still uses much of proprietary MSTS !

To use tracks of any sort a Global Tsection.dat is required to specify what they do to be recorded in routes *.TDB files, unless WORLD files point TrackObj items to somewhere else and there is the local Tsection.dat to specify Dynamic ones and that is just the tip of the Iceberg !

O t t o

[crstagg]

Without MSTS installed and the ORTS team having to create source code to replace all that MSTS does with it's files, which are being used by most everything that has been released for MSTS to date, they need new files ORTS can use, not being able to create code to read the MSTS files and make them work in ORTS exactly the same way as they do in MSTS.

If you have an idea how they can do that without having to create suitable for ORTS files from scratch then I am sure that they will appreciate you telling them how to do it.

My DB-TRACKS-ROUTES Mini is the best that can be done but still uses much of proprietary MSTS !

To use tracks of any sort a Global Tsection.dat is required to specify what they do to be recorded in routes *.TDB files, unless WORLD files point TrackObj items to somewhere else and there is the local Tsection.dat to specify Dynamic ones and that is just the tip of the Iceberg !

O t t o

BUT the Global Tsection is available without having to own MSTS.

I don't think you understand how little of MSTS that ORTS needs to run. Since you like to post pictures look at this one. This is my root folder of my ORTS mini install. The only route in this install is WP3 (3dTrains Feather River). As I said earlier it runs very well in ORTS.


Notice that there are NO files in the Root folder. All the files that ORTS needs are the files it installs in its folder(s) and the files in the Route folders and the Trains Folders and the files called by the files in those folders which include files found in the Global folder(s) and the Sound folder.


And here is the Global folder:


Note: The tsection.dat is Build 38 which is the one required by WP3. I could have placed the current one there instead.
Also the camcfg.wp3 not the 2 bat files are not needed by ORTS.

[GoGoran]

I look at OR as a significant mod to an existing program, not as a brand-new program in its own right and as an owner of MSTS it doen't matter to me whether it becomes a free-standing product or continues to require MSTS as it's foundation.

Yeah, I also cannot see a problem with the supposedly scarce availability of MSTS. It can still be bought across Europe for less than 10,-- Euros, fresh from the presses. You can mail-order it in the US, Canada and anywhere else in the world for 20 - 35 Euros incl. shipping fees.

[seagoon]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet2
http://articles.cnn.com/2003-03-11/t...ser?_s=PM:TECH

Yeah, right, Otto.
I certainly won't hold my breath waiting for I2 to replace what we've been using for the past 14 years!

[seagoon]

..... Marc is now aware of these errors and I expect an update will be issued in the future. .....

Not necessarily.
A recent communication from Marc indicated that he was not particularly interested in either MSTS or OR. In fact, at that time he had not even seen Feather River running under OR.

BK