Brakes and Performance Issue

[OTTODAD]

In the WUPPEX running this German 14 passenger cars train with opening and closing doors, powered by a TSER DB 12021, it's acceleration is too slow and adding a second TSER DB 12021 at the rear did not improve it's acceleration rate much.

Varying the amount of throttle in case there is wheel slip made no difference.

Also the sound of the train brakes releasing does not stop.

Shown at night for a better F5 display.

www.otto-wipfel.co.uk/video/wupper-train.wmv

Alt-Enter to view it Full-Screen and turn up your speakers sound to hear it's sounds better, FRAPS not being good at recording and replaying them.

O t t o

[lindsayts]

I do not know if this will help but...................

On some locos particularly European electric locos I have driven in OR if you open the throttle more than a certain amount they accelerate VERY slowly. If you chase the throttle up, ie advance the throttle slowly as the loco accelerates it behaves OK. A lot of the locos in the SOB route behave this way.

Lindsay

[OTTODAD]

I do not know if this will help but...................

On some locos particularly European electric locos I have driven in OR if you open the throttle more than a certain amount they accelerate VERY slowly. If you chase the throttle up, ie advance the throttle slowly as the loco accelerates it behaves OK. A lot of the locos in the SOB route behave this way.

Thanks !

I am going to try that, also having the SOB and the Bernina routes.

O t t o

[OTTODAD]

Tested it and the WUPPEX train does not start to move until 30% throttle has been applied and gradually increasing it to 100% it's acceleration is unrealistic.

The train brakes release sound still goes on and on after having held down the brakes release key to release them in all the train's cars !

The same acceleration with a TGV in the LGE route which however starts moving with 7% throttle.

Nothing moves in it's cab, controls and indicator dials.

Will be a long time for the ORTS team to look into all the variations running in the current MSTSBin.

O t t o

[longiron]

The current development version of OR has implemented our new phase 1 physics for diesel, electric and steam locomotives which provide extremely accurate prototype acceleration based on input from real world experts. The physics covers an entirely new model of wheel slip that sets the stage for extremely accurate prototype performance for first generation through the most advanced limited slip traction set ups.

[OTTODAD]

The current development version of OR has implemented our new phase 1 physics for diesel, electric and steam locomotives which provide extremely accurate prototype acceleration based on input from real world experts. The physics covers an entirely new model of wheel slip that sets the stage for extremely accurate prototype performance for first generation through the most advanced limited slip traction set ups.

Will they apply to all existing locos, their physics affecting acceleration and brakes having been specified in their *.ENG files in accordance with what many MSTS experts on the subject have suggested, like Bob Boudoin and others ?

O t t o

[longiron]

Will they apply to all existing locos, their physics affecting acceleration and brakes having been specified in their *.ENG files in accordance with what many MSTS experts on the subject have suggested, like Bob Boudoin and others ?

O t t o

Yes, OR is tested with the latest paramters from Bob and others. What I've seen is slightly slower acceleration (compared to MSTS) due to the influence of prototype traction motor loading and inertia calculations (that MSTS does not account for) with very similar overall pulling power.

[OTTODAD]

Yes, OR is tested with the latest parameters from Bob and others. What I've seen is slightly slower acceleration (compared to MSTS) due to the influence of prototype traction motor loading and inertia calculations (that MSTS does not account for) with very similar overall pulling power.

Just tested my Santa-Fe Explorer High-Speed version in ORTS and applying full throttle took 2 minutes to reach 100 MpH.

Did the same in MSTSBin and after 2 minutes it did 1030 MpH !

Why do I need such a fast train, max. speed 2000 MpH ?

I use it to test routes with miles and miles of tracks in them, like the PRR-East Region, the Wuppex, LGE, Lehigh, my 400 miles Gold-Spike-X and others.

Doing that in the last release of the Wuppex found 2 locations with track problems, causing the route to crash, which Graphics-15 could not find the cause for and helped Ralf fix it !

Below is it's test path which runs through a number of reverse loops and yes that can be done too !

O t t o

[longiron]

Just tested my Santa-Fe Explorer High-Speed version in ORTS and applying full throttle took 2 minutes to reach 100 MpH.

Did the same in MSTSBin and after 2 minutes it did 1030 MpH !

First, do you have any idea how much HP you would need to move a train at 1,030 Mph? The answer is something like 720,000 hp (according to a train forces calculator I use) to move a 1,000 ton train over straight and level track. Open Rails is not trying to simulate that kind of behavior.

[OTTODAD]

First, do you have any idea how much HP you would need to move a train at 1,030 Mph? The answer is something like 720,000 hp (according to a train forces calculator I use) to move a 1,000 ton train over straight and level track. Open Rails is not trying to simulate that kind of behavior.

It's not a question of what the source code of ORTS will allow, it is what you can do with the support files it uses, like with the MSTS *.ENG files, the SFX-HST one shown below.

If you code ORTS like a straight jacket which does not let users override what it does then that will not allow modifications, some having different ideas of how a train should perform, which RW-2 is having a problem with.

O t t o

[longiron]

It's not a question of what the source code of ORTS will allow, it is what you can do with the support files it uses, like with the MSTS *.ENG files, the SFX-HST one shown below.
O t t o

Otto,
I appreciate your desire to have trains that have 200 million HP and travel 1,000 MpH. Our stated objective is to build the "world's most realistic" simulator. That's what our focus is on. We're a volunteer organization and we have only limited development resources. If some OR dev wants to take on simulating this kind of physics, I'm not going to stop them. But I'm not going ask developers to simulate that.

[OTTODAD]

I appreciate your desire to have trains that have 200 million HP and travel 1,000 MpH. Our stated objective is to build the "world's most realistic" simulator. That's what our focus is on. We're a volunteer organization and we have only limited development resources. If some OR dev wants to take on simulating this kind of physics, I'm not going to stop them. But I'm not going ask developers to simulate that.

I think I did not make it clearer what I meant.

The source code has to simulate reality as best as it can.

Will ORTS not use files like MSTS does to allow modifications, which RW-2 does not and one is stuck with what it's source has been programmed to do ?

A dev modifying it for his own use, if he can, is one option but releasing it into the ORTS community, conflicting with what others do is not.

If he then downloads an updated version of ORTS it's source code would wipe out his mods !

It's like Linux was at one time.

O t t o

[longiron]

I think I did not make it clearer what I meant.
O t t o

Sorry, I did not understand what you were asking. Open Rails will not modify the user's files with an update or download, unlike RW. If and when there are new or additional parameters needed to support independent Open Rails functionality, it will be up to the user to make those mods. In time, perhaps the community or the OR team will develop tools to make mods on many locomotives or train cars, but it will always be separate from the core game.

[OTTODAD]

Open Rails will not modify the user's files with an update or download, unlike RW. If and when there are new or additional parameters needed to support independent Open Rails functionality, it will be up to the user to make those mods. In time, perhaps the community or the OR team will develop tools to make mods on many locomotives or train cars, but it will always be separate from the core game.

Yes, you guys are doing a grand job, as is already evident in the ORTS so far.

My only fear is that at the age of 82 now I don't think I shall see a Gold release of it, MSTS having taken 10 years to get to where it is now !

Keep up the good work and am looking forward to further betas of it.

O t t o