Open Rails - yet another slave to 'realism'

[zarker99]

No - nore is just high detail textures in motion.

[sniper297]

Clickety clack on the railroad track

I've always been a low speed freight nut so never paid much attention to this, but a big part of it to me is the sound - particularly track sounds. That disco drumbeat that came with the default Marias Pass never appealed to me, so I made my own ttype.dat file with a mix of other default WAV files;

Listen to the track sounds at different speeds and you'll see what's missing from the default. Been a long time, but IIRC you can copy the ttype.dat file and the SOUNDS folder from any PORTOGDEN route and paste into another route's folder to get the track sounds.

A lot of younger kids are into welded rail and concrete ties, but even without track joint sounds the repetition needs to speed up and increase in pitch (DO-RE-MI octave stuff) as the speed increases.

[GoGoran]

A lot of younger kids are into welded rail and concrete ties

Not only the kids. In Europe, especially in Germany, welded rails have been standard since the 1940s on main railroads. The rails are welded together to form pieces of 800 - 1500 meters length, and the joints between them, which are still necessary due to heat expansion or shrinking in the cold, are made in an overlapping manner, so they become unhearable (and the added stress on the rolling stock is removed this way, too). These welded rails were also built with standard wooden ties up thru the 1970s, by the way.

[conrail1]

welded rails have been standard since the 1940s on main railroads. The rails are welded together to form pieces of 800 - 1500 meters length, and the joints between them, which are still necessary due to heat expansion or shrinking in the cold, are made in an overlapping manner, so they become unhearable

Running over continuous welded rail is not “unhearable”, you still hear plenty from the cab, flat spots are just one example of this.

I good example of this can be found by simply looking at what running in the cab sounds like in openBVE.

[GoGoran]

Running over continuous welded rail is not “unhearable”, you still hear plenty from the cab, flat spots are just one example of this.

Maybe, maybe not. You do hear something from time to time, but travelling on the German railroads you will not notice it if you don't pay specific attention to it. You do hear a lot of rumbling and clicking in the large, speed-restricted station and yard areas, however.

[conrail1]

Maybe, maybe not. You do hear something from time to time, but travelling on the German railroads you will not notice it if you don't pay specific attention to it. You do hear a lot of rumbling and clicking in the large, speed-restricted station and yard areas, however.

No maybe about it, I’ve spent plenty of time in the cabs of locomotives running over continuous welded rail and it’s far from “unhearable”.

[lindsayts]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, Using another railway sim as evidence of how real railways behave is not what I would call a strong argument. In Victoria (Australia) some years ago they did a MAJOR upgrade to the main country passenger lines. The upgrade included complete removal of track, redone base and drainage new concrete sleepers, 60Kg rail, new signalling, level crossing controlers etc. One of the lines the Footscray to Ballarat line (the only one I have been on) is almost completely smooth and quite. At 160kph one only hears a bit of wheel noise and of course the engines (Cummins QSK19R's). The new switching that is being used (of European origin) is also total smooth and quite, you cannot even hear the wheels going over the frog. How this being acheived I do not know, I wonder if they are doing a "tram square" (Note 1) although it is likely due to the type of frog being used.

Note 1: The capitol city of Victoria is Melbourne, the city has both an extensive train and tram networks. In a number of places both rail systems cross one another on the level. These crossings are called tram squares and are in fact a good deal more complex than they look. At these crossings the squares are arranged so that both the trams and the trains run on the flanges over the rail crossings themselves. This prevents the wheels from damaging the crossings and also the crossings produce no noise (when installed properly and not worn to glory due to lack of maintence).

Lindsay

[conrail1]

Using another railway sim as evidence of how real railways behave is not what I would call a strong argument.
Lindsay

Who’s using “another railway sim as evidence of how real railways behave”?

I’m comparing it to actual experience at the throttle and in the cab of a locomotive.

[lindsayts]

Who’s using “another railway sim as evidence of how real railways behave”?

I’m comparing it to actual experience at the throttle and in the cab of a locomotive.

You said........

Running over continuous welded rail is not “unhearable”, you still hear plenty from the cab, flat spots are just one example of this.

I good example of this can be found by simply looking at what running in the cab sounds like in openBVE.

Lindsay

[lindsayts]

A couple of points I would like to make on the problems of reality in a train
sim or in fact any sim.

1: On a desktop system there is always going to be limited processing power and the
world is a VERY complex place so there will ALWAYS be limitations on any sim.

2: A railway simulation is different things to different people so what one may
think is indispenable is very likely not on another persons radar. So due to
problems with point 1 the developers can NOT do everything. So it is very likely somethings
will not be simulated, The developers are NOT miracle workers.
Or to put it another way there is not JUST one reality but depends on what some
think is important.

3: Somethings will be very difficult to simulate with any accuracy. This will
mean it will be likely that some will pick it as being faked and this is NOT
going to enhance the sim in anyway.
An example of this is movement of the rolling stock due to track or forces
within the rolling stock (the rotating forces of the rods in steam locos being
an example). Inspite of what some people think this varies quite a bit and VERY
markedly depends on the condition of the track. Varying from being very bad on
steam locos at speed on track in poor condition to being basicly non existent on
the newer faster passenger lines built to european standards using modern european style rolling stock (The Ballarat line in Victoria Australia being a
prime example).
One can put this as one size simulator is NOT going to fit all.

4: There are others but the above will do nicely for a start.

Lindsay

PS, How this forum formats text is a real mystery, this was writen using vim and pasted into the browser.

[conrail1]

You said........

Running over continuous welded rail is not “unhearable”, you still hear plenty from the cab, flat spots are just one example of this.

I good example of this can be found by simply looking at what running in the cab sounds like in openBVE.

Lindsay

Exactly, and the reason why I used openBVE as the example.

It’s the only consumer train sim so far that has gotten the sounds even close to what it’s like in real life in the cab of a locomotive at speed running over continuous welded rail.

[GoGoran]

I'm a daily passenger on German regional trains, some of them conventional loco-wagon trains, some of them modern EMU or DMU types.

While there probably is a difference between sitting in the loco cab and a passenger wagon, there is no difference between sitting in the cab or in the passenger section of a DMU/EMU, in regard to the sounds you hear from the tracks.

Hence I can tell you: There are no audible track-joint sounds en route. Just in the stations you can hear something like that, and even there almost exclusively on the switches (probably no joint sounds at all, but switch sounds).

[zarker99]

I'm a daily passenger on German regional trains, some of them conventional loco-wagon trains, some of them modern EMU or DMU types.

While there probably is a difference between sitting in the loco cab and a passenger wagon, there is no difference between sitting in the cab or in the passenger section of a DMU/EMU, in regard to the sounds you hear from the tracks.

Hence I can tell you: There are no audible track-joint sounds en route. Just in the stations you can hear something like that, and even there almost exclusively on the switches (probably no joint sounds at all, but switch sounds).

Modern rail travel is so dull.
All you hear is the air-cond. But it is a great place to get some sleep
Maybe we should all switch to a bed simulator, or sensory deprivation emulators.

Hey - I'll just stay with MSTS1 with 88 FOV and driving games to get anything of interest.

ho hum.

[conrail1]

Modern rail travel is so dull.

That’s the difference from simulating what goes on in the cab of locomotive and what a engineer does and how he does it compared to simulating just going along for the ride or watching trains go by trackside, which as we’ve seen with other train games doesn’t hold the users attention very long.

[conductorchris]

Also the difference between being in the cab and being back in the coaches. Or, for that matter, being in a modern air conditioned coach or a heavyweight open window car. I've ridden heavyweight open window cars on ribbon rail -- Sure, there's no clickty clack, but there's a very distinctive swish, swish kind of sound. And I've certainly heard plenty of flange squeal on welded rail. Stuff you miss if you're just riding the coaches.