Tokyo Hakone JAPAN1 Uncoupling and Derailing Bug

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  • ChandlerBranchRailfan

    • Sep 2022
    • 169
    • General

    #1

    Tokyo Hakone JAPAN1 Uncoupling and Derailing Bug

    Hello fellow Trainsimmers,

    I need help with a problem regarding the out-of-the-box JAPAN1 or Tokyo Hakone Route.


    In this video, you can see what happens.
    This uncoupling and derailing bug happens on the default Tokyo Hakone between Tamagawa Gauken Mae and Machida and it affects BOTH tracks in BOTH directions. However, it ONLY happens when I am running a train using couplers that can be detatched. In permanently coupled trains (with couplers that cannot be uncoupled like the Acela or Series 7000LSE) there is no problem.

    Unlike the infamous Cutbank Problem (named because it happened at Cutbank on default Marias Pass) and the NEC Interlocking Problem:
    Both were caused by there being a distance greater than 5 miles between turnouts (red nodes). For example if turnout a and turnout b are 5 miles apart but turnout c is six miles apart from turnout b, then the coupler breaks when the train hits turnout c with a coupler break and medium-sized derailment at best, a massive wild derailment at worst.

    Both were solved by adding a red node (either through x-tracks dummy nodes or adding a crossover or switch in general) to the offending track. (In Cutbank, the south track was not affected because it already had two turnouts to break up the track - one at Ethridge for a grain elevator, and one for the Oil Refinery. The NEC Problem was solved by adding more crossovers to break up the track.)

    However, this bug does NOT happen at a turnout so we can rule the "Cutbank Problem" out as a culprit.
    I've attached a file showing the problem area so if you want to try to recreate the problem you can try so you can better understand what happened.

    Because I know people will ask as these have caused problems on other routes before:
    1. NO, I did NOT install X-Tracks, much less use them in the route.
    2. I did NOT modify the route in any way shape or form.

    I remember playing this route as a kid and I was all like "what the heck?" when my train derailed at this spot (and I was not using MSTS Bin at the time so we can rule out MSTS Bin (or lackthereof) as a problem.)
    If anyone can provide a solution, I would really appreciate it, thank you!
    Attached Files
  • slipperman
    2500 Post Veteran



    • May 2010
    • 3661
    • Worksop, UK
    • MSOR

    #2
    Hi,
    One shot in the Youtube video shows the train travelling at 200mph - could that, by any remote chance, be the cause of your problem? !!

    Even if it is a bug in MSTS, there's no chance in Hell of it being fixed!! Have you tried the same activities/consists in Open Rails? Does that have the same 'bug'?

    Cheers,
    Ged
    Last edited by slipperman; 06-09-2026, 08:41.

    Comment

    • oper190
      Senior Member



      • May 2010
      • 1218
      • Port Charlotte, FL
      • English
      • MSOR

      #3
      Did a check in both MSTS Roue Editor and made test paths over that area in both directions. Ran a train in both directions in MSTS and observed a bounce and jiggle of the trains in both directions at the location you indicated. I was at track speed on one run and over at 130kph on the second. I use Bin so that might make a difference.

      In the Editor I see this:
      image.jpg
      Note there is a slight Gap and Outset in the track at that location. Note: the Blue Diamonds are for Dynamic pieces that are used there. HOWEVER since you are not using XTrack ( or ATracks ) there probably are not correctly sized pieces in the default track shapes that will fit to replace the Dynamic pieces with, why they were used. So basically you are stuck with the situation, run at lower speed might help, use Bin a real boost to MSTS anyway, and/or add XTrack, ( ATracks ) and replace the Dynamic pieces.

      Edit: - Many of the default cars seemed to brake coupling to easily and was recommended to change those setting. Not a Train person to know what's right, but recall early on with MSTS couplings braking often until I change the coupling settings, using the info from other cars that were "fixed."

      Now I have loaded the Route into my OR sets and ran the same area in OR with the same result, running a Series 7000 trainset at track speed, cars bounced and giggled crossing that section of track. ( I run OR with 'Break Couplers' unchecked )
      Last edited by oper190; 06-09-2026, 10:56.
      Geary "Mr. Hart" Gerhardt - Owner and CEO of Hart Rail Lines, Hart Commuter Railways, and Hart Rail Cars. Also the defunct Hart Electric Transit.
      It's Your Train Sim World, sim as you please.

      Comment

      • baldwin
        5000 Post Veteran

        • Nov 1999
        • 6332
        • Chippenham, Wiltshire, UK.
        • ORTS

        #4
        Looking at that location using the OR trackviewer shows a very small gap in both tracks, which are most probably caused by those wee DT pieces.
        Beer is not a matter of life or death, it is much more serious than that.

        Comment

        • ChandlerBranchRailfan

          • Sep 2022
          • 169
          • General

          #5
          Originally posted by oper190
          Did a check in both MSTS Roue Editor and made test paths over that area in both directions. Ran a train in both directions in MSTS and observed a bounce and jiggle of the trains in both directions at the location you indicated. I was at track speed on one run and over at 130kph on the second. I use Bin so that might make a difference.

          In the Editor I see this:
          image.jpg
          Note there is a slight Gap and Outset in the track at that location. Note: the Blue Diamonds are for Dynamic pieces that are used there. HOWEVER since you are not using XTrack ( or ATracks ) there probably are not correctly sized pieces in the default track shapes that will fit to replace the Dynamic pieces with, why they were used. So basically you are stuck with the situation, run at lower speed might help, use Bin a real boost to MSTS anyway, and/or add XTrack, ( ATracks ) and replace the Dynamic pieces.

          Edit: - Many of the default cars seemed to brake coupling to easily and was recommended to change those setting. Not a Train person to know what's right, but recall early on with MSTS couplings braking often until I change the coupling settings, using the info from other cars that were "fixed."

          Now I have loaded the Route into my OR sets and ran the same area in OR with the same result, running a Series 7000 trainset at track speed, cars bounced and giggled crossing that section of track. ( I run OR with 'Break Couplers' unchecked )
          No offense but I said "I remember playing this route as a kid and I was all like "what the heck?" when my train derailed at this spot (and I was not using MSTS Bin at the time so we can rule out MSTS Bin (or lackthereof) as a problem.)" This means I am USING MSTS BIN NOW as opposed to back when I was a kid and I did not.

          And you said you used a Series 7000 LSE in both cases so I can safely say that the permanently coupled trains have no problem.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug0uFiYrSHw&t=73s I ran at a slow speed but still derailed.

          Comment

          • eric
            Owner/Admin



            • Dec 2002
            • 9273
            • NS MP245.4 CNO&TP South District
            • English, SQL
            • General

            #6
            It didn't take much of a misalignment in MSTS to cause a derailment. Fixing the track isn't difficult.
            If you like what you see here at Trainsim.com, be it the discussions and knowledge in the forums, items saved in our library or the ongoing development of our TSRE Fork, I hope you'll consider a paid membership to help support keeping the site operating.... Thanks!

            Comment

            • ChandlerBranchRailfan

              • Sep 2022
              • 169
              • General

              #7
              Originally posted by oper190
              Edit: - Many of the default cars seemed to brake coupling to easily and was recommended to change those setting. Not a Train person to know what's right, but recall early on with MSTS couplings braking often until I change the coupling settings, using the info from other cars that were "fixed."

              In this video I ran a consist with only cars with that higher break value. No derailment in either direction but the coupler still breaks and the train recouples itself.
              Fine in explore route but in an activity it won't work.

              Comment

              • ChandlerBranchRailfan

                • Sep 2022
                • 169
                • General

                #8
                Originally posted by eric
                It didn't take much of a misalignment in MSTS to cause a derailment. Fixing the track isn't difficult.
                I'm guessing this was fixed in j1ab1.zip

                EDIT: 6/9/26 2PM AZ TIME

                I was wrong. It wasn't.
                Last edited by ChandlerBranchRailfan; 06-09-2026, 15:01.

                Comment

                • ChandlerBranchRailfan

                  • Sep 2022
                  • 169
                  • General

                  #9
                  UPDATE: After installing odakyu1a.zip and odakyu1b.zip the problem is fixed but it breaks all the old activities.
                  Now that I think of it I might try something more ambitious.

                  Combine j1ab1.zip and odakyu1a.zip and odakyu1b.zip

                  EDIT: Maybe I'll just fix the default
                  Last edited by ChandlerBranchRailfan; 06-09-2026, 15:29.

                  Comment

                  • oper190
                    Senior Member



                    • May 2010
                    • 1218
                    • Port Charlotte, FL
                    • English
                    • MSOR

                    #10
                    Okay ran a modified Activity with a US GG1 train set, so using automatic couplers, running at normal GG1 speed 100mph, (track speed was 68mph, a real buttle train for a Series 7000 ) and had the broken coupler end of activity at that point. Obviously bad track there. I don't know how to fix Dynamic Tracks, never use it myself in route building.

                    Another quality job by Kuju and MS
                    Last edited by oper190; 06-09-2026, 20:32.
                    Geary "Mr. Hart" Gerhardt - Owner and CEO of Hart Rail Lines, Hart Commuter Railways, and Hart Rail Cars. Also the defunct Hart Electric Transit.
                    It's Your Train Sim World, sim as you please.

                    Comment

                    • ChandlerBranchRailfan

                      • Sep 2022
                      • 169
                      • General

                      #11
                      Originally posted by oper190
                      Okay ran a modified Activity with a US GG1 train set, so using automatic couplers, running at normal GG1 speed 100mph, (track speed was 68mph, a real buttle train for a Series 7000 ) and had the broken coupler end of activity at that point. Obviously bad track there. I don't know how to fix Dynamic Tracks, never use it myself in route building.

                      Another quality job by Kuju and MS
                      At least your PRR GG-1 is more realistic if you know what I mean!
                      Too bad it forces us to use those overrated Japanese trains (no offense).

                      Comment

                      • oper190
                        Senior Member



                        • May 2010
                        • 1218
                        • Port Charlotte, FL
                        • English
                        • MSOR

                        #12
                        Never run the two Japanese Routes that often, and always with their default stock when I do, so never saw that issue before. So they'll collect a lot more dust now anyway.
                        Geary "Mr. Hart" Gerhardt - Owner and CEO of Hart Rail Lines, Hart Commuter Railways, and Hart Rail Cars. Also the defunct Hart Electric Transit.
                        It's Your Train Sim World, sim as you please.

                        Comment

                        • ChandlerBranchRailfan

                          • Sep 2022
                          • 169
                          • General

                          #13
                          Originally posted by oper190
                          Never run the two Japanese Routes that often, and always with their default stock when I do, so never saw that issue before. So they'll collect a lot more dust now anyway.
                          Hisatsu could easily be a stand in for the Reading and Northern or a N&W Route or SOU Route.
                          Last edited by ChandlerBranchRailfan; 06-10-2026, 12:14.

                          Comment

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